The Professors passion for "The Science of Deceit" started here...

Employed by the Ministry (in a covert capacity) to help introduce the law ending dishonest politics, you can see his hand all over the posts of past.

Current political circumstances have forced him to reveal himself and as we speak, MPs are signing up to re-introduce The Elected Representatives (Prohibition of Deception) Bill for debate with over 80,000 voters supporting them.

Posts before Jan '08 are purely for the record (with hindsight they make fascinating reading). Posts after May 13th mark the Professor's return.


Meet the Professor

Monday, March 26, 2007

Hot waters

Ahhh yesssss....the capture of 15 Naval personnel in Iraqi/Iranian waters.

In the argument against holding our elected representatives to account for lying, much noise has been made by legal types - "Where's the loss incurred because of the lie ? If there's no loss, what are you holding them to account for exactly ?"

When our elected representatives are perceived as anything other than honest, Foreign Affairs are precisely where "the people" suffer "a loss".

Blair says we were in Iraqi waters, the Iranians say bollocks.

It would be nice to think that when the PM says "our lads were in Iraqi territorial waters" you could bet your life they were (after all, that's what "our lads" are doing).

It would be nice to think that in the face of such a clear denial, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Manouchehr Mottaki would feel ridiculous even questioning our PM's integrity.

It would be nice to think the UN and international allies would see Mottaki as ridiculous because he questioned our Prime Minister's integrity.

The foreign minister of Iran can put doubt in our minds, the minds of the UN and our international allies over anything our Prime Minister says for two reasons ;

1) The current governments track record.

2) The Belgrano.

The glory days of Thatcher and the Belgrano come 2nd in our series "Great Political porkies" of our time.

Hours after the Peruvian-brokered peace plan landed in London, Thatcher (cigar in mouth) said to the Argentinians, "If you don't stop that naval vessel coming toward the Falklands, I'm going to blow it out of the fucking water."

The Argentinians replied, "What the hell are you talking about ? We're sailing away from the islands. "

Thatcher said, "No you're not." and promptly blew them out of the fucking water.

In fact the Belgrano was sailing away from the Falklands.

She went on to lie in Parliament and on national TV about the incident.

Clive Ponting, a senior Ministry of Defence civil servant, was increasingly frustrated both by Whitehall's misuse of secrecy and by the way the Navy was using the Falklands experience to try to roll back the 1981 defence review, In July 1984, he gave Tam Dalyell MP documents to show how he and the Foreign Affairs Select Committee that was enquiring into the affair were being misled.

Clive was prosecuted under the Official Secrets Act (later) acquitted but civil service career effectively over.

P.S. Freedom of Information request into the Belgrano sinking was refused in June 2005

16 comments:

  1. Why did he send them to Tam Dalyell? Confused....

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  2. Tam Dalyell asked Thatcher questions in the house and was seen by the media as spearheading the enquiry into the Belgrano affair.

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  3. Reactions to this incident do say a lot about how much we trust what our politicians say. I don't know who to believe. Even if this whole thing is "part of the [Iranian]strategy to challenge British and American supremacy in [that] part of the world", we shouldn't bloody well be there in the first place!

    I didn't know much about the Belgrano before today. I vaguely knew what had happened and had seen the famous 'gotcha' headline, but when you look into it it is blatantly ANOTHER war crime to add to the long and increasing list

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  4. Tony the Hairdresser26 Mar 2007, 12:47:00

    We won didn't we ? Save the hippy shit for the 60's re-union.

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  5. why did we need to win? What's so good about the Falklands that we just had to have them?? NOTHING! It was to do with the upcoming election and the defence review

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  6. And because Thatcher is a war-mongering bitch

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  7. Just a thought26 Mar 2007, 13:45:00

    I think you'll find the British citizens and occupants dis-agree. There's also the matter of Galtieris improper advances - he could've asked nicely.

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  8. Not really an issue of whether we won or not. Our Prime Minister lied to us and on the back of a rancid bout of patriotism we voted her in again. Echoes of Iraq and the re-election of Blair ? More fool us.

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  9. It seems pretty hysterical to draw a parallel between this incident and the Belgrano, given that the former involves the capture of 15 sailors, while the latter resulted in the death of 321 on board the Belgrano. A little perspective, please…

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  10. Steady on said,
    "It seems pretty hysterical to draw a parallel between this incident and the Belgrano, given that the former involves the capture of 15 sailors, while the latter resulted in the death of 321 on board the Belgrano. A little perspective, please…"

    Don't think you can compare the incidents, but it's a pretty shabby state of affairs when you can't put your hand on your heart and say that if Blair tells us our lads were in Iraqi waters than they must have been.

    The point is, Thatcher lied, Blair and his gov's track record ain't mauch better and that affects our credibility abroad.

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  11. The problem is, how can you expect the Iranian people to believe President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad lying when our he can credibly spin propaganda that shows leaders in the west lie to their own people - from Blair to Clinton to Thatcher.

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  12. The quote left by an anonymous poster earlier was taken from a BBC news article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6494289.stm), and is missing its second half:

    “This could be part of the strategy to challenge British and American supremacy in this part of the world - which is troubling, because this could lead to confrontation and this could be a trigger and could lead to escalation".

    The worrying thing about this incident is that in the context of continuing controversy over Iran’s nuclear programme, this is a bloody stupid time for Iran to be provoking the US.

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  13. st quintin said...
    "The quote left by ..."

    A big Simpson style,,,,Doooohh !!. You think just maybe the Iranians figured this'd be a decent opportunity to up the ante ? Trouble is we just don't know if Blair and Co were taking the piss.

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  14. Seaman Staines26 Mar 2007, 18:33:00

    Scenario 1
    Sailor, “Errr Cap’n, aren’t we in Iranian waters ?”
    Captain, “Don’t worry about it, Blair said it’s fine”.
    Iranian President (off screen), “Heh, heh, heh. They’ll never believe Blair and Co”

    Scenario 2
    Sailor, “Errr Cap’n, aren’t we in Iranian waters ?”
    Captain, “No”
    Iranian President (off screen), “Heh, heh, heh. They’ll never believe Blair and Co.”

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  15. Roger the cabin boy26 Mar 2007, 18:37:00

    Seaman Staines said...
    see above.

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very fucking funny. Unless you happen to be in the Navy.

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  16. Roger the cabin boy said...
    "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very fucking funny. Unless you happen to be in the Navy."
    .. Or the wife, parents, children of one of them.

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